Once the pipe is old enough to have one or two hairline cracks, the cracks will keep increasing until it has many cracks, eventually becoming too fragile to hold its structure and breaks. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. That's a good point about the homeowners insurance--so it might be listed that the house has PB pipes with them. During my over 20-year real estate investing career, Ive dealt many times with properties having this problem. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. Here at Repipe Specialists, ourrepiping services utilize only made-in-the-USA high quality copper (Grade L) or Uponor PEX tubing. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. So, it is recommended to discuss the option of re-piping with the seller and get it done before moving into your new home. They are regularly looking for homeowners selling a house in poor condition as is. Whether it's snakes, mice, or bats, in most . Does a repipe include drain pipes? Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. Facts vs. Fiction 7. It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. Does a Seller Have to Disclose the Presence of Polybutylene Pipes in the Home? Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. Polybutylene pipes fall under the category of a material defect, and almost all states make you disclose any information related to a property defect. And if you're not home when a pipe bursts (and it will), this can result in thousands of dollars in water and structural damages. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. Polybutylene (PB) is a plastic used for piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995. You are currently on our multi-family site. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? loan Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. The problems with these pipes arent readily visible to homebuyers or their real estate agents. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. They would need to be comfortable with buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes and repair any damage. We are a national platform connecting homeowners looking to sell their house fast and for cash with real estate investors willing to help them. Check our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. Replacing your exterior water supply connections can cost from $600 to $2,400. Home inspectors wont do that. Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. What to Know When Buying a Home With Polybutylene? In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. A home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and the current status of leaks or other problems. What does polybutylene pipe look like? However, the seller must be truthful if asked, unless state law allows them to say that they don't wish to answer. Some states' disclosure laws are more comprehensive than others, and if a feature isn't on the list the seller may not be required to speak up. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. Facts vs. Fiction 6. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. Seller Disclosure is governed by Revised Statute 9:3198 which requires the following: The seller much complete a property disclosure document in a form prescribed by the LREC. I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. These include: Levels of chlorine and other minerals in the water: the water we receive generally has certain minerals added to them to ensure that the water is safe and clean for our use. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. History tells us that problems will occur, you just dont know when. Most states have stricter . We've requested they replace the pipes, give us a credit for the replacement, or bring the offer price down to cover it. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. Our passion for perfection continues to serve our customers year after year. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. The property will have to be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved. The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). Pests. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. Interview several and check their references. If the Seller refuses to return your money, you would have to file a lawsuit against the Seller. Woe is me. Call 800-216-0132 to schedule an estimate. In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? Their business model is to purchase properties that they can repair or upgrade. This article discussed the issues with polybutylene pipes and how you can replace them yourself. Our Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes in her house and has never had a problem so we shouldn't worry about it. lending We will get it done for you. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. Florida case law provides that, with some exceptions, a home seller must disclose any facts or conditions about the property that have a substantial impact on its value or desirability and that others cannot easily see for themselves. These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. Get quotes and review them for completeness. Over the years Brian has been involved in over 300 transactions of income producing properties across the US. In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. financing Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. Houses are expensive things to own and unexpected bills can come up at any time. "When I work with a seller in a neighborhood that I know has polybutylene, we always have to check before putting the house on the market," Willard adds. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. The realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and replaced it all with polybutylene piping. I've never heard of anyone spending $3000.00 on an inspection. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. When temperatures rise and fall, poly pipes will expand and contract. They work with property values in your area every day. apartment Real estate investors are exactly this type of buyer. Others follow long term investing strategies. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. Polybutylene pipe health risks and product failures led to a successful class-action lawsuit in 1995. Investors buy homes with cash. We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. They can handle most of the diligence themselves and are the only decision-maker involved on their side of the deal. Some investors are called house flippers. And again, in 1989. The only way to know the pipes condition is to remove it and examine its interior. A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. And try and get the price reduced. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. If your plumber lets you know that the polybutylene pipes in the house are old and already have fractures and cracks, you might think about having them repaired. The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? It is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a specific system failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the future. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. Your agent is not liable at this point since home inspection did what it was supposed to do: discover defects and needed repairs. If you are a seller, you should disclose all known conditions that the buyers need to know about the property including the likelihood of leaky pipes. If the seller discloses this up front, the buyer can not request the replacement of the pipes if they wait to make an issue of it until the Inspection Period even though it is considered a defective product. Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. There are no showings or open houses. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Polybutylene is practically guaranteed to break down at some point, and it's impossible to tell how soon that will be just by observing a pipe's exterior. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. In that case, you might start freaking out about what to do next because, as we have already discussed above, there are some significant downsides to polybutylene pipes. What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? Can You Get Home Insurance With Polybutylene Pipes? I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). Click here for more information. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? Generally gray or white in color, but may also be blue, black, or silver. My house is more than 125 years old, and I dread having to sell it to someone like this. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Theres no way to determine the polybutylene piping condition without removing it to examine how far the damage has gone thoroughly, but home inspectors and contractors wont do that. 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