Ive been to Ephesus and it is just a tourist destination. In 2014, Leanne Mellado let me know that a good friend of hers had shared a disturbing story. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. That is common respect for other people. Do not be the disciple with the sword. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. All so sad! I do. Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. What a great article! I am thankful for the hard work Bill Hybels and his family have done. (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). I pity you if thats the case. There are no winners here. Listen to yourself, Brad! Hes probably kicking himself for the missed opportunity! I do believe that there exist genuine sexual perverts, but we err when we naively believe that all who abuse particularly those in positions of power and authority who systematically abuse are merely acting out sexual impulses. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. Is Bill Hybels still married? I was prescribed ambien, and I was one of those affected in that way behaving strangely and not remembering it the next day. [I]n his private life, according to a number of women in his orbit, Krauss exhibits some of the sexist behavior that he denounces in public. So much! Ive been wondering if church leaders with abusive pastors have become convinced (or have convinced themselves) that, 1) Sexual misconduct is somehow rampant among charismatic pastors I would be ROFL if it didnt mean that there are some folks who have been deceived. The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. The creep factor never ceases to amaze me. This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. Bill Hybels has stepped down from Chicago-area megachurch Willow Creek six months ahead of his planned retirement, in the wake of allegations of misconduct . I recognized something was wrong with that, but for various reasons, didnt quite make the connection. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. Chicago Tribune article #5, by Manya Brachear Pashman. For most organizations, hard questions and analytical thinking is NOT desirable, as it will almost always challenges the official orthodoxy and might even unmask hidden agendas. Now, you should go back and read about victims and try to learn why this open letter hurts real victims. @ Davis and Natasha: Ok whats wrong with this picture?? Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) 1 kiss But if true it is still not honorable behavior. Hey WCCC, set up an 800 number with an outside firm so anyone with information can call without fear of being shamed on stage or in the press. Brads comments only serve to make me wonder how many people worship Hybels instead of God. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. Ever. @ Law Prof: Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. Youre not alone Lyds. Updated | Rev. Because TWW doesnt have a tick the box to be notified of future comments, and because my comments seem to go live straight away, I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. I have plenty of people whod vouch that Im often a royal pain in the keester, that I shoot from the hip, that I get downright angry, often in an ungodly way, when dealing with bullies, especially religious bullies, youd probably find some whod call me a contentious man, but I dont think youd find one of them whod call me a liar, a sleazy operator, a shifty lawyer type. However, there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go with the flow and do not rock the boat, by questioning things. Does Bill Hybels teach pastors how to get more friendly with his staff, but keep it under raps? Dr George Simon Jr a clinical psychologist and writes about character disorder, manipulative personalities and malignant narcissism. Or perhaps some women get hugged one way or the other disproportionately for one reason or the other and therefore complain or not about hugging-ness. The whole church is in our thoughts and prayers. The Spirit does the work: both in the calling and in the conversion. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. Or would he start looking for material for making a whip? . Might I suggest this might more accurately say that sexual predation is not always based on wanting to have sex? The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. I could be misconstruing everything & he may just be being over-sympathetic to me as a now single woman, trying to be nice, trying to be helpful (which he is to everyone). Nothing is 100% safe but these wrk pretty well. Less excusable is the behavior of the elders after it started coming out. Think about it. This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . Just without a Christianese coat of paint. If interested, I posted more material, links, analysis, and some leads to Dan Brennans thoughts on anxious egalitarianism, on this article: https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/some-thoughts-on-supposedly-feminist-men-who-reportedly-abuse-harass-women/. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. I mentioned how I recently read of a church where the IT had a deal with pastor to delete specifically his e-mails I laugh and say fat chance I can get him to do that for me! This is exactly what I had in mind!? Anyone questioning the purpose of this blog should realize that when churches and relgious leaders put themselves out there accountabilty comes with that publicity. Invited women to their hotel rooms No!! Why is Willow Creek exempt? You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. Learn to be alone with yourself. I do agree with you, however, that there is enough blame and there has been enough time and somebody should have done something long ago, if that is what you are saying. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. Since you are well versed, go back to Jesus in the Garden the night he was betrayed. I double dog dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget. Thats why it cant be measured in terms of numbers, and in the case of Graham and Hybels are likely massively inflated anyway, and again, they dont get the numbers credit in any event, because its not that simple, its an enormously complex process that leads anyone to this or that place where they hear a message that the Holy Spirit uses to tip them over the fence. There is great peace in being able to say That action was wrong. and not have to decide Is he saved?. Its not the victim. While WW can be messy, I think most poster here just want honesty, transparacy, and protection/respect of the weaker ones. After you were told by Bill that you dressed like a college professor and needed to dress appropriately for your position, I was the one asked to get you new clothing. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. Family. in one of those situations. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w. The faith grew. They are evangelized for church. And I go back to one of my earlier assertions about celebrity. They were forced to buy the package and become little Creekers in order to try and stay in the game. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. I am one of His people. Willow Creek Community Church initially started as a high school ministry but grew over time to become one of the biggest Churches in the United . Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. 3) Their situation is, as Jack Nicholsons character says in the movie of the same name, As good as it gets.. And then maybe they see it happening, confront the guy, he says understood and suddenly you and your husband are out of a job. What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. We still do not know what that really means. Oh yeah. Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. And you re-evaluate. If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? WTF? That is more unusual these days. Actually, those are the tools of the enemy, formerly called deception and it is THAT which God desires to rescue us from. As with many couples, there were times we couldn't imagine making it through another year, let alone another decade or two. over my many years associated with fundamenatlist through to mainline protestant groups I have experienced things situations, or told things that seemed just downright wrong. The worst that often has happened is some vague mumbled half-apology or copping to a general misunderstanding. Here you will get Bill Hybels's net worth, weight, height net worth, girlfriend, educational qualification and complete bio. Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) @ okrapod: I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. Simul justus et peccator. (Spell check keeps changing it to percolator!). Thanks for the info. This is part of the problem that the #metoo movement does not address. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. (Likewise, it seems that women did not have clarity about reportable behaviors and were expected to handle it on their own.). Agreed that Ms. Walles claims arent relevant to the question of Mr. Hybels actions, although they do speak to a toxic, boundary-less culture where men were apparently not held to high standards and did not have clear guidelines that held them accountable. I think we have lived the same life. While still being married, Stephany accidentally reconnects with a former lover, who is hideously ugly and struggling nancially. Paul was a tentmaker, so they had other jobs. Remember all those times we hung out together and nothing happened? His wife had done nothing wrong . ", © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. This story involved a fourteen-year sexual affair. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. At least you know what they are upfront . Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. Will the newly installed Willow Creek pastoral leadership/management just put a proverbial 501(c)3 band-aid on an open sore and continue business as usual; now that there has been identified a large hole in this churchs ethical, moral and scriptural superstructure? As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Serving whom? Your experience fits my own. Not atypical. I will keep the website updated. Its very complicated. Most of the folks who comment on this blog are of that stripe in their comments, they express a great concern for ministers and ministries who appear more concerned about their mission than the Great Commission. The Buckner Show has been cancelled; we now return this time slot to the regularly-scheduled Wartburg Watch.. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. But it is even harder when those left behind form a militia to hunt down and fire at anyone who dares to question the paradigm. Narcissistic, abusive leaders are masterful manipulators, and even the most intelligent, cynical, questioning people can be taken under their spell without knowing it has happened. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. I do not buy Hybels IT excuse for one second. @ dee: Dee, The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. This is ALL so disappointing and disheartening. Of course, some people, probably many people, will do things just for politeness sake. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. He is politically liberal, decrying sexism, racism, and the fear of people who are different, and is a vocal critic of Donald Trump. An honest person has nothing to hide and everything to gain and will save things because he is safe in the knowledge that evidence will only prove his innocence. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? What needs to be addressed is that this is not a matter of somehow eliminating the existence of random perverts, as if such a thing were possible. Its their normal. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Nope. Im a pastor and a survivor of emotional/verbal abuse (in a relationship, not in a church), and I can tell you that one of the biggest reasons I stayed as long as I did was because I was convinced that I didnt deserve better, I made my own bed and had to sleep in it, and that what I got was as good as I could ever hope for. I believe that God is convicting WCCs leadership. Hybels considers himself first among equals in the fraternity of evangelical pastors. Does it lend itself to the overall problem? Same play book. The accusations against Hybels come from multiple women, including several former employees who spoke on the record with the Chicago Tribune as a part of a major investigation published in March . 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