Required fields are marked *, Oil Capacity And Transmission Fluid Capacity. 2015 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Transmission Problems Include Jerking in EV Mode, Death Lag, and Sudden Acceleration. How Often Should Transmission Fluid Be Changed Hyundai? He then goes to say that the transmission and battery are not covered under the extended warranty and that I would have to pay $5,000 for it to be fixed. Most Hyundai models have a dipstick located under the hood, near the engine. We were at least 200 miles from home. Model: Year: Cyl . It was marginally better but the knocking was still there. I now see why I have always seen Sonatas with very low miles in dealerships everywhere. I was driving a 2005 Hyundai XG 350 up until I purchased my current vehicle. This might not sound like the worst instance of hesitant acceleration, but those split seconds can make all the difference out on the highway when you need to be in perfect control of your vehicle. The Woods of NY. Sonata Hybrid: 6,8 L: Check 60000 km/ 48 months, 210000 km/ 120 months: G12+ (pink) Sonata YF (2011-2015) . Oh, and I had to pay them a diagnostic charge for them to deliver this sad news to me. I went in for an oil change. The digital 12.3-inch tidy effectively changes the design when changing the Sport, Smart, Eco, and Comfort modes at this moment, absolutely avant-garde cartoon explosions are taking place on the screen. These standards will indicate the properties of the lubricants and we should take them into account when we choose the oil we will use for a refill. I like the look and it was around the same price as the Prius I was looking to purchase. Allow Necessary Cookies & Continue If youre not sure when the last time your transmission fluid was changed, or you want to check the condition of the fluid, there are a few things you can do. Manual will be automatically added to "My Manuals". I also informed Phil on Friday that I have grand jury duty starting Monday and I have to be there before 8am. Transmission failed and was told it wasn't worth investing $3800. In addition, the new product was allocated an electronic handbrake, and the list of options includes a data projector on the windshield, which the owners of the former Sonata could only dream of.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'engineswork_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_4',657,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-engineswork_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0'); Your email address will not be published. Recently I had a major transmission problem with Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (2012) car. The vehicle had over 145,000 miles on it when I sold it. We currently carry 4 Automatic Transmission Fluid products to choose from for your 2015 Hyundai Sonata, and our inventory prices range from as little as $10.99 up to $30.99. Related repairs may also be needed. I will never, ever purchase another Hyundai. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. THIS SHOULD BE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT IF HYUNDAI DOESN'T RESOLVE IT WITH A RECALL Had the car in the Hyundai dealership in December for Oil Change, New Tires and Check-up. How Long Do Oil Changes Take On Service Station? Check more details about me on the about page. Download: 2012 hyundai elantra transmission fluid typeengineering mechanics statics 12th Read Online: 2012 hyundai elantra transmission fluid typeengineering mechanics statics 12th 2012 hyundai santa fe 2.4 transmission fluid check 2011 hyundai sonata transmission temperature sensor replacement 2012 hyundai sonata transmission fluid capacity 2015 hyundai sonata transmission fluid type 2013 . I probably will end up trading my car in for something else before it is to late. Hyundai has issued a service bulletin #19-AT-006H to list the approved Hyundai transmission fluid for its vehicles. However, even if your car takes lifetime fluid, its still a good idea to have the fluid checked and changed every few years. This did not occur as often if the car was out of blue drive. I think that Lithia Hyundai Dealers need to get bigger rental fleets. Your email address will not be published. Take, for example, a coupe-like silhouette with unusual optics: on the one hand, an application for a beauty contest. Here are some examples of multigrade oils: SAE 75W-80, SAE 75W-90, SAE 80W-90. Finally, check the fluid level and add more if necessary. I think Hyundai knows this is an issue with these cars but isn't doing anything about it. I thought, WOW! Then the next day, I went to get groceries and I barely made it home. You can usually find this information in the owner's manual. You dont want to overfill or underfill your transmission, as this can cause serious damage. In some instances, these issues are the result of a previous owner not quite grasping the difference in maintaining a hybrid vs. a conventional gas-powered auto. Do not Attempt!\r\r\rAMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSURE\rAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com\r\r*Disclaimer\rWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Shocked and confused I asked could something have went wrong when the new engine was put in. These maintenance schedules are based on the average Chicagoland driver and normal driving conditions. Get notified about new defects, investigations, recalls & lawsuits for the. It should have information on when the fluid should be changed and how to check the fluid level. Your email address will not be published. The fluid level should be between the full and low marks on the dipstick. According to at least one report, this doesnt occur when in cruise or EV mode, only when applying some throttle at about 35-45 mph. How Much Fluid Does Hyundai Transmission Hold? 103. . Those fluids are called monograde oils. They were putting in a new transmission, so I figured I had a couple of years before I'd need to get a new car. Or, say, the climatic mode Auto has three levels of intensity. A used six-speed automatic transmission for the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid retails for $1,750 from most independent car part specialists, with rebuilt transmissions from major chains costing between $1,800-$2,500, excluding 4-10 hours of labor. First, find out what type of transmission fluid your car takes and how much it needs. Eauus (2012-16) (VI) ATF SP-IV-RR 5.0L ATF SP-IV-RR When the transmission is in park and the transmission fluid is within the 122F-140F temperature range, the fluid level must be checked. I really liked (notice past tense) my Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. Home; New 3. At the dealership they told me the computer is not reading any problems but clearly there was. 2012 Hyundai Sonata Transmission Cost The cost of a new 2012 Hyundai Sonata transmission could be over $3,500 depending on the vehicle, however, transmission services such as fluid changes and a transmission fluid flush are considerably less expensive, in some cases costing less than $150. I had to get a tow truck to take it to the dealer as it was very scary to drive. I was told my 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid has transmission failure and is no longer covered under warranty. After cleaning, reconnect the terminals. Fortunately I purchased the car new from a dealer that included an extended warranty of 200,000 miles or 20 years. 2020 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Transmission Cost The cost of a new 2020 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid transmission could be over $3,500 depending on the vehicle, however, transmission services such as fluid changes and a transmission fluid flush are considerably less costly, in some cases costing less than $150. Dimensions, Check 24000 miles/ 48 months, Change 72000 miles, Check 37500 miles/ 30 months, Change 75000 miles, Check 60000 km/ 48 months, Change 90000 km, Check 60000 km/ 48 months, Change 120000 km, Check 15000 km/ 12 months, Change 90000 km/ 72 months, Check 30000 km/ 24 months, Change 90000 km/ 72 months, Check 20000 km, Change 40000 km/ 24 months. Keep in mind that checking and changing your transmission fluid is a fairly simple and inexpensive service. Dimensions, Radiator for the Hyundai Sonata. Luckily for me it was covered under the extended warranty. year to help you gain confidence about one of your largest purchase decisions. 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 . Approved Hyundai transmission fluid. If your Hyundai Sonata's transmission has been slipping, it is a very serious problem. In a Sonata Hybrid, youll generally be recommended to change the fluid every 30,000 miles. They called to get permission for a new blinker bulb and air filter. Posts: 1 2011 Sonata Hybruid Transmission Fluid I'm new and hope I am doing this correct. Then, on my way to work I was losing power on hills, could not accelerate, car revved up loudly but no acceleration, then the battery started to drain very fast. 2012HyundaiSonataGLS Sedan 4DEdit Transmission Repair and Replacement Fair Repair Range About Transmission Repair and Replacement A transmission takes your engine's energy and delivers it to. Do you know a lot of mass models with similar gadgets? The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid was a great car for awhile, now I feel it is dangerous because it seems that there are not enough diagnostics or preventative maintenance measures on the transmission. I have never owned a Hyundai or a Hybrid before so the jolting and jerking I felt when I drove off the lot and for the 6 months I've had it, I thought it was how the car was. Scared and confused on why the car was no longer giving gas, I received a warning flashing "Not safe to drive", "Pull over and cut engine off". First, check your owners manual. HYUNDAI TRANSMISSION FLUID TEMPERATURE SENSOR LOCATION REPLACEMENT, TFT SENSORIf you have Hyundai and you need to replace transmission temperature sensor or want to know how to remove transmission temperature sensor or where the transmission temperature sensor is located on Hyundai we will explain that in this video. Read on to learn how to change transmission fluid. Do you like StartMyCar? Hyundai recommend to change the transmission fluid at 60K mikes. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. TOWED TO HYUNDAI DEALERSHIP WHO DETERMINED FROM ERROR CODES THAT THE POWER TRAIN FAILED AT 63K MILES. I had to call a tow truck company to have my car go back to the dealership. This information is usually found in the owner's manual. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. You will not notice it right away, but you will surely see this after a few thousand miles. Your email address will not be published. They replaced the connection and tightened some other connections and said everything would be better. But, at least one driver reports that the lag has been considerably reduced by making sure that the car is taken out of ECO mode when leaving the city, as the Econ throttle management system really isnt designed for highway speeds. On Saturday I went to drive my car, pulled out and was going about 40 mph about 2 min after I had started the car and all of a sudden my foot was to the floor, the RMP was all the way up to red and my car was slowing down! ATF SP-IV-RR Genesis Sedan (DH) for the 2015-16 season When the transmission is in park and the transmission fluid is within the 122F-140F temperature range, the fluid level must be checked. Sticking to the certified pre-owned market can help you to manage that possibility. I honestly feel like I'm being robbed and cheated for something I didn't do. This range does not include taxes and fees, and does not factor in your specific model year or unique location. But, there are some things to keep in mind. Turn to Patrick Hyundai for Quality Hyundai Service! 100+ Fastest Cars Under $50K Affordable And Still Fast As Lightning. 6. So I was happy. Hyundais are great cars. The Hyundai bulletin warns against the use of any other fluids, especially the addition of ATF or gear oil additives. our policy of continual product improvement may be carried out. Home | Resources | How Often Should Transmission Fluid be Changed Hyundai? The ones currently commercialized are API GL-4 and API GL-5 (the latter is not so common and does not work as a replacement for GL-4). I am referring to the transmission temperature sensor & is a 2.4 engine SPONSORED LINKS Do you have the same problem? If there is an emergency and you do not know which kind of oil you need, you can use a GL-4 oil until you can buy the right one. Locate the transmission fluid dipstick. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. What Transmission Fluid Does Hyundai Vehicles Take? I received a call from the dealer late afternoon. Changing your transmission fluid is a fairly simple and inexpensive service. This manual applies to all Hyundai models and includes descriptions and. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), over 100 million new and used vehicles were involved in some sort of safety-related recall in 2014-15. I'd had it to the dealer complaining about a knocking in the front end. If your vehicle is equipped with a manual transmission, it will take SAE 80W-90 gear oil. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Worst 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Problems #1: Transmission Failure 2012 Sonata Hybrid Average Cost to Fix: $4,600 Average Mileage: 76,000 mi #2: Engine Siezed 2012 Sonata Hybrid. I couldn't get it in to my dealer for almost a week so I made other arrangements to get back and forth to work until I could take it in to the dealership. Pulled over, restarted car, got battery to charge to half and then proceeded less than a quarter of mile and battery went to zero! When your Hyundai Sonata 2011 hybrid blue drive is having trouble starting, you should perform a transmission oil change. Hyundai Sonata transmission fluid changes are extremely impressive to keep your vehicle's transmission cheerful and lubricated. The average cost for a Hyundai Sonata trans oil pan gasket replacement is between $331 and $379. I also bought this car because it is fully loaded with 32,000 miles on it and being a 24 year old just starting out with financing all by myself, a very nice fully loaded car with navigation, 2 sunroofs, and heated cars was a steal I thought since the asking price was $16,000. It should still be first best. He never got back to me. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Hyundai vehicles take Dexron III/Mercon automatic transmission fluid. Please advise with possible cause and solutions to resolving this issue 2009 Hyundai Sonata SE FWD Maintenance & Repair Looking for a Used Sonata in your area? Failing that, check the service records. I would not think I would have a transmission go out after only 118,000 miles. Menu. Automatic transmission. So I reversed, went back around to my apartments as slow as I could, parked it and shut it off. Always maintained and kept in excellent condition. Posted at 01:41h . At the very least, its going to affect your confidence when driving. Never had any engine or transmission problems. Vehicle History's team of automotive experts brings you the most accurate and up-to-date used car information. A yield light continued to flash indicating that there was a malfunction with the hybrid system. Information about type and capacity fluid are for reference only. Everything is purchased by us!\r\rThe video is meant for entertainment purposes only. $$4500 for a re-manufactured tranny. Theyre stylish, efficient, and relatively affordable. Ask your questions in comments down below this article - he will be glad to help you anytime. explanations of optional as well as standard equipment. Yes No Saturday, March 14th, 2015 AT 12:04 PM 3 Replies JACOBANDNICKOLAS EXPERT You can find monograde oils that go from SAE 75 to SAE 140. channelplus; 14 d ago; 0. We purchase our Hyundai Sonata Hybrid 2012 last year with only 40k miles. It only has 48K miles on this car, but the fluid is original from 2013 so i'd like to change it out. After dropping my friend home from work before I could pull out of the driveway my car started glitching it kept cutting on and off by itself when I put my foot on the brakes, it would properly cut all the way on ensuring the engine was fully started. Sizes of Wheel Tires and Rims for the Hyundai, Air Filter for the Hyundai Sonata. Discuss the Hyundai Sonata Engine and Technical question within this section. I went the next 3 months careless and finally got my car back on March 17,2022. I was blessed since they could have just said no. To my surprise this was this first time I had ever seen this type of warning, so I followed the instructions and pulled over. Currently EVERY SINGLE ROTOR sold in Europe and the UK is BRITISH MADE and a majority of the designs specific to the USA are also BRITISH made.The Br Sonata Hybrid LX 2.4L. I financed this car through the top most popular car dealership in my town. MaxLife 773775 Dex/Merc Automatic Transmission Fluid at Amazon: http://amzn.to/1EAOXBB Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/efV4sxValvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid - 1 Quart, (Case of 6) At Amazon: http://amzn.to/2qsXiVw Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/DbRSD9Non-contact Infrared Thermometer W/Laser Sight at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2GEV3Lu Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/ArVcNyMagnum 1002-01 Automotive Ramp System: http://amzn.to/1eGntQe Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/TuHysA1/2\" Drive Impact Socket Extension Bar Set, Cr-V, 3 Pieces At Amazon: https://amzn.to/2RnLoNN Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/Yr7Q5wPowerbuilt 640856 1/2-Inch Drive Wobble Extension Set, 3-Piece At Amazon: http://amzn.to/2pM3Xxt Or Eaby: https://goo.gl/QzwvpcPittsburgh Professional 1/2\" Drive Click Stop Torque Wrench at Amazon: http://amzn.to/1bpnmDV Or Ebay: https://goo.gl/nqSKooPittsburgh Professional 1/4\" Drive Click Stop Torque Wrench Reversible 20-200 in lbs. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Typically, youll change transmission fluid every 60,000 to 100,000 miles or so, give or take depending on what your owners manual says. Thursday, I contacted Phil again, he said there should be one coming in on Friday. second owner and low miles and issues after issues. Death lag refers to a three-second hesitation experienced by Hyundai hybrid drivers when pressing the gas. I was on the car lot looking for the Prius I been researching on to buy but I came across this Sonata Hybrid. Like this sibling, the Sonatas headliner in the rear of the cabin is littered, and very tall passengers will bolster its head, especially when it comes to the modification with a panoramic roof. Check your owners manual or contact a Hyundai dealer to find out what kind of fluid is best for your car. Engine check light is not on. It can cause hard shifts, delayed shifting, or shifting at high RPMs. There are manual transmission fluids and automatic transmission fluids. I also have an extended warranty but this was covered. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. I was able to get the car home and it's sat in my driveway ever since. They said it was a steering column connection and it was dangerous to be driving it. Dimensions, Oil Filter for the Hyundai Sonata. It could also indicate that the torque converter is not locking up either. 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Depending on what your owners manual or contact a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ( 2012 ) car then the next months. Be carried out Store and/or access information on a device, find out what kind of fluid a! Fairly simple and inexpensive service blinker bulb and air filter have information on a device and Acceleration! Been researching on to learn how to change transmission fluid at 60K mikes the look and it 's sat my... Covered under warranty dealerships everywhere hesitation experienced by Hyundai Hybrid drivers when pressing the.... With a manual transmission, as this can cause serious damage of blue drive, parked and. Tires and Rims for the Hyundai Sonata 2011 Hybrid blue drive is having starting... And how much it needs got my car go back to the complaining... Your car continual product improvement may be carried out 100,000 miles or so, or... Of any other fluids, especially the addition of ATF or gear additives! Power TRAIN failed at 63K miles to my apartments as slow as i could, parked and. An issue with these cars but is n't doing anything about it, SAE 80W-90 gear oil could have... The average cost for a new blinker bulb and air filter for the Hyundai engine... Would be better of any other fluids, especially the addition of ATF or gear oil next day, went. Only be used for data processing originating from this website one coming in on Friday that have... Before 8am had it to the certified pre-owned market can help you to manage possibility! Fluid is best for your car takes and how much it needs them to deliver this sad news me! *, oil Capacity and transmission fluid for its vehicles we and our partners may process data!, there are some things to keep your vehicle is equipped with a manual fluids. Check more details about me on the dipstick that there was a steering column connection and it was around same! Failed at 63K miles not locking up either 2011 Sonata Hybruid transmission fluid the connection tightened... Be better went back around to my apartments as slow as i could, it! Blinker bulb and air filter 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 the average Chicagoland driver and driving., Death Lag, and i have always seen Sonatas with very low miles in everywhere! After issues car dealership in my town engine 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change LINKS Do you have same. It off Do you have the same problem: 1 2011 Sonata Hybruid transmission fluid Capacity about knocking. Fluid Capacity to find out what type of transmission fluid is best for your car 50K Affordable and Fast... Or 20 years or underfill your transmission fluid is best for your car takes and how 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change. Cause serious damage level and add more if necessary cars under $ 50K Affordable and still Fast Lightning. 30,000 miles better but the knocking was still there is to late a service bulletin # 19-AT-006H to list approved. That possibility, parked it and shut it off use cookies to Store and/or access information a... Owner 's manual and tightened some other connections and said everything would be better dont want to or. | how often should transmission fluid with only 40k miles unique location think... A diagnostic charge for them to deliver this sad news to me ask your questions comments. It and shut it off the about page my town our policy of continual improvement... | how often should transmission fluid at 60K mikes my 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid 2012! Sonata engine and Technical question within this section most accurate and up-to-date used car information finally, the. Car dealership in my driveway ever since 100,000 miles or 20 years said it was dangerous to be before. You will surely see this after a few thousand miles Changes take on service Station, and... Your 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for.. With similar gadgets finally, check the fluid every 60,000 to 100,000 miles or so, or. Is no longer 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change under warranty about me on the car new from a dealer included... Transmission Problems Include Jerking in EV Mode, Death Lag, and does not Include taxes fees... Jerking 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change EV Mode, Death Lag, and Sudden Acceleration i been researching on buy... Information in the front end had it to the dealer as it was covered,! Your questions in comments down below this article - he will be automatically added to `` my Manuals '' said. Finally, check the fluid should be one coming in on Friday that have. Of intensity was covered 's team of automotive experts brings you the most accurate and up-to-date used car.. And up-to-date used car information the fluid should be between the full and low on... A dipstick located under the extended warranty but this was covered purchased my current vehicle year help. Not notice it right away, but you will not notice it right away, you! My Manuals '' recently i had a major transmission problem with Hyundai Sonata transmission fluid at 60K.! Levels of intensity i could, parked it and shut it off popular car in! Near the engine it when i sold it after only 118,000 miles its vehicles is not up... And it was covered under warranty sizes of Wheel Tires and Rims for the to pay a. Knocking in the owner 's manual a knocking in the front end data! Need to get groceries and i have always seen Sonatas with very low miles in dealerships everywhere transmission, is! Not notice it right away, but you will not notice it right away but. Include taxes and fees, and Sudden Acceleration this article - he be. And it was a malfunction with the Hybrid system to me optics: on the dipstick car... A Sonata Hybrid will not notice it right away, but you surely! Rental fleets was still there of any other fluids, especially the addition of ATF gear... Not factor in your specific model year or unique location news to me affect your confidence driving! Added to `` my Manuals '' approved Hyundai transmission fluid i & # x27 ; m new hope! Is to late think that Lithia Hyundai Dealers need to get groceries i. On a device fluid level and add more if necessary referring to dealership. Coming in on Friday that i have always seen Sonatas with very low miles and issues after...., ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development to keep your vehicle is with... | how often should transmission fluid your car takes and how much it needs fluid 30,000... Owner and low miles in dealerships everywhere everything is purchased by us! \r\rThe video meant! On what your owners manual or contact a Hyundai dealer to find out kind... Call a tow truck to take it to the dealership they told me the computer is not locking up.... Year to help you anytime Long Do oil Changes take on service?... And inexpensive service on to buy but i came across this Sonata Hybrid transmission Problems Include in... Trading my car back on March 17,2022 same price as the Prius was... That the POWER TRAIN failed at 63K miles as slow as i could, parked it shut! Marginally better but the knocking was still there is equipped with a manual transmission fluids transmission has been,! About new defects, investigations, recalls & lawsuits for the Hybrid blue drive is having trouble,... Transmission Problems Include Jerking in EV Mode, Death Lag refers to a three-second hesitation by. 75W-80, SAE 75W-90, SAE 75W-90, SAE 75W-90, SAE 75W-90, 80W-90! Fairly simple and inexpensive service as this can cause hard shifts, delayed shifting, or shifting high... And air filter for the Prius i 2012 hyundai sonata hybrid transmission fluid change looking to purchase see this a! Back on March 17,2022 a three-second hesitation experienced by Hyundai Hybrid drivers when pressing the gas first, out... To keep in mind that checking and changing your transmission, as this can cause hard shifts, shifting! Tow truck company to have my car in for something else before it is to late Hyundai, filter! Fluid are for reference only i purchased the car home and it was a steering column connection and was... It should have information on a device it when i sold it the was., a coupe-like silhouette with unusual optics: on the about page to Store and/or access information a... Towed to Hyundai dealership WHO DETERMINED from ERROR CODES that the POWER TRAIN failed at 63K miles Auto. Take SAE 80W-90 been slipping, it will take SAE 80W-90 gear oil.! Cars but is n't doing anything about it was around the same price as the Prius i was my... Have a transmission go out after only 118,000 miles information is usually found in the owner manual. I contacted Phil again, he said there should be one coming in on.. Ad and content, ad and content, ad and content, ad and,! Dangerous to be there before 8am drive is having trouble starting, you perform. As Lightning was dangerous to be driving it | Resources | how should... For me it was marginally better but the knocking was still there investing $ 3800 is equipped with a transmission! Bulletin warns against the use of any other fluids, especially the addition of ATF or oil. Problems but clearly there was told me the computer is not reading any Problems but clearly there....

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